Edited transcript of interview with TRENT T (Pseudonym) by DUKE DILLARD on Zoom, June 29, 2026.

DD Tell us your story as to how you came to the place of doing what we would call alongsider work. Explain what happened to get you to where you are now from where you began.

TT First, let me explain my paradigm, and then I will add a few nuances to that. I would say the first 13 years, from 1993 to 2006, when we were in Country A, we were doing more of a classic Pauline ministry. We were measuring out the field and starting to take out the rocks. Basically, as the apostolic kind of people in a place where there were no local Muslim-background believers (MBBs). And then we left Country A with most other expats in 2006.

Twelve years later, when we returned to Country A, there were around 7,500 MBBs. Significantly fewer expats were ministering there than in 2006. Certainly, all the experienced expats were gone. At that point in 2018, there was already a first-generation MBB church with leaders of some sort, meaning we returned to a very different situation.

And so, I’d say we came back to a completely Barnabas-style ministry instead of a Pauline ministry. And some of the distinctions for me were that I was not trying to get people to join me, and I was not trying to lead them in a certain direction. I was not trying to sell them a particular model or pattern or vision. I was assuming that God had already raised up the leaders and given them vision and means.

So, for example, I’m working with AW, who’s a very strong leader, a gifted guy who’s pursuing a particular movement approach. I’m really glad he has a vision, and he’s pushing in this direction. I don’t think this particular approach is the most appropriate for Country A, but I think it’s more important that I work with him where he is, than that I try to do something that I think is more appropriate. That way, the new church is built around locals. If expats are “pillars” in the new church, the church will be stable as long as expats remain. But when the “pillar” expats leave, the local church doesn’t last long.

With regard to which MBBs I work with, I’m not looking at whether they have been to seminary, or who did they work with before? What is their church affiliation? Instead, I’m asking, are they committed, faithful, envisioned, and being used of God? Are they seeking Jesus and his kingdom and wanting to make avdifference? Another big thing I consider is, are they culturally engaged, are they still a part of their birth oikos (community)? If so, I pursue relationship with them.

DD Yes, that’s helpful. What does community look like for you?

TT I think most of them would see me as a mentor. Like AW says, “Your main ministry to me is asking questions.” So, I’m saying, “Why would you choose this brother and not this brother?” Or I’m thinking, if they’re initiating it and wanting to pray together, I’m going to happily join them. I’m not initiating it, but I’m just one of the participants. Mostly, I just sit in their leadership meetings and participate. And after an hour or two, usually, they might ask me a few things, or I’ll reflect and say, “So, why are you spending so much time talking about this, but you haven’t even talked about that?”

They don’t view me as an authority figure in that sense. Though, at one point, AW asked me if I would just be on the team, like, in the organizational chart, and I declined. It feels like it’s healthier for me to be an outsider at that level, even though I participate sometimes like a team member. For instance, when we do a training, I’m one of the planners, and I’m one of the trainers. I fulfill that little piece. I’m not officially part of their team in an ongoing way, so when they have a couples team event, or an all-family event, they don’t invite me. I’m not one of the team people. I’m in a little different category.

Two of the main guys, AW, and his second, BM, have a lot of conflict with each other. They’re both talking to me about their conflict with the other one. And they both know that the other one is also talking to me, and they’re okay with it. So, I’m thinking this is about as healthy as I could imagine. They both trust me to be helpful and neutral.

DD Good. Here is what I’m hearing you say. You have ideas. You’re curious and making judgments or assessments about what they are doing. You are thinking one thing would be better than another or are uncertain why they are not doing what seems obvious to you. But instead of saying that, you’re asking questions and influencing their thinking. How often are they saying, “Oh, okay, well, I guess I should do something different, because Trent seems to think I should”?

TT It depends on the person. Sometimes I’ll be talking with AW, and mid-sentence, he’ll stop and pick up his phone and start sending voice texts, because he decided about something based on our conversation.

DD Meaning he changed his mind, or…

TT Yes. For example, I said, “Well, why are you trying to get sponsors? Why don’t you just ask all the participants to pay? I mean, that’s what they’d be paying for something like this somewhere else. Ask all the participants to kick in this much money.” He texted his team and said this. But he didn’t say to me, “I think you’re right. Thanks for saying that.” Let me give some examples with other guys. AH comes over, and I feel like I’m the safe “insider-outsider.” He can talk about issues in his marriage or sticky relational issues in the church, and just kind of throw it all out there. And I listen and care for him. Maybe I have some ideas and suggestions, maybe I don’t, but at least I am a person who understands the challenges he faces and am “safe” for him to talk to. So, I sense I have helped him, sometimes more as a listener than an adviser.

Another guy, KJ, calls me his soul caregiver. He comes and confesses his sins to me, and we pray together, but I have almost no influence with him in ministry tactics. He is quite open to sharing where he’s at personally and relationally and wanting perspective, help, and encouragement.

DD Okay, this is great, but going back a little bit, you were there for 13 years, you’re gone for 12 years, you come back, and you’re fluent in the language. What was the process of getting to this place you’re at now because they didn’t know you, necessarily, or did they know you? How long did it take? What did you have to do to earn their trust?

TT That’s a great question. Many people I had met, or they had heard of me. We just started inviting them to our house as couples. Or I would meet them for lunch, and I would just start to build a relationship with them. I would explain. “You know, we were here in the early years. God sent us here to see the first stages of the church get started, and the church got started. And then God decided that was enough, and he moved all the expats on, and he gave the baton to you as the leaders. We haven’t returned to take back the baton. God gave it to you. We’re here to hold up your arms, to encourage you, to pray with you. You’re the ones God has put in leadership. And some people believed me the first time I said it, some people believed me the third time, some people still aren’t interested. Like, I was eager to come alongside one particular guy I knew and speak into his life. To this day, he’s not interested in meeting with me. No openness. So, I haven’t pursued him.

DD Fascinating! The picture you gave is like an Aaron and Hur holding Moses’ arms. That’s literally the picture of someone standing alongside someone. Now you’ve been back in the country eight years. How has the progression been from new returnee to trusted Alongsider?

TT Yeah. It’s just slowly increasing. I didn’t know AW very well, but at the beginning he was the one saying, “Hey, can you come and help me? Can you do this? Can you teach this? Can you advise me about this?” That opened other things, and because we do trainings on topics like marriage and spiritual formation, we were exposed to other leaders. And because of our former experience in a different region of the country, we connected with a few people from that region. So, there are different streams; it wasn’t all through one stream. Here’s an example. This last year, DS, who I hadn’t worked with before but had met a few times, came to me and asked if we could meet. He said, “Hey, we’re trying to do marriage ministry, but these husbands are still thinking like Muslims. Can you help me? BM said you could help me.” So, in this instance you can see that one relationship led to another. In this case, I said, “Yeah, I think I can help you. You get the guys, and you organize it, and I’ll put together a program.” I like when it’s their initiative. They’re the promoter. They’re organizing it, and I’m just coming in as the servant-teacher.

DD It sounds like the process was that you initiated initially. You set some stuff up, invited them in, and then it was up to them if they wanted to continue.

TT Well, let me give one example that can serve as a kind of case study. There were two MBBs that worked for another foreigner, PD. They were leaders, and PD had me do a team-building thing with them. Afterwards, TB asked me if I would do kind of a mentoring leadership for these two guys. So, I met with them once and kind of went over some material. The one guy, AM, is really a cultural insider in a certain region of the
country. I thought he’d be the one I would invest in, while the other guy worked in a foreign-culture church, and I wasn’t sure about him. Well, AM never had any interest in coming to meet with me again. However, the second guy did, so I started meeting with him and going through Stephen Covey’s 7 Habits book slowly. He was reading the book, and we were discussing the habits. Every time he said, “Meeting with you is the best part of my month.” I was thinking, “Really?” I was just caring about him, asking questions, and praying for him. I think he never had someone like that. But to the other part of your question, it’s not that I wait for them to initiate. Young people usually don’t initiate with older people. I must navigate that a little bit.

It does help that I’m older than almost all of them.

DD There’s a sense in which they trust you relation-ally, and they trust your wisdom or experience, and thus are willing to connect with you?

TT Well, there’s a few dimensions to that. First, they feel like I get them. And particularly in Country B, I heard this. But I have other examples in Country A, too, where the locals would tell me I was not like the kind of expats with an agenda. So, I don’t have an agenda for their lives, and second, that when they say their relative came, and his daughter-in-law is da-da-da, I get it. I get the detail and the nuance of what’s happening. That makes it easy for them to just throw everything out there.

In addition, they trust that I’m really for them and for what God wants to do in and through them. So, if that’s important to them, then they’ll want to meet with me. Whereas, some guys that are more, I don’t know, it feels like there’s more ego in their motivations and aspirations, then they don’t want to meet with me.

DD Yeah, I hear you saying the relationships are less formal but understood. I mean, if I were to ask any of these guys about their relationship with you, what would they say?

TT The idea of a formal meeting or being their official mentor does not seem relevant. It’s much more organic. Like this one guy, UB, who ran a lot with a different group of expats. He said to me, “I’ve learned so much from you. And you never tried to teach me anything. I appreciate that.”

DD This has been fascinating, TT. Thank you for your time and sharing your story with us.

TT Happy to do it. Come see us in Central Asia.